Lassoers

Actually, it was posted a few days ago, but it has some important feedback requests, so I'm posting it to LassoTalk;

http://www.lassosoft.com/On-Documentation

<snip>

- I'd like to identify a few of the author's of some of the best books in other languages. Once we know who the best books are out there written for other languages - convince their authors to write one of those books for us. So my question to you is: what is the best programming book you know?

- I'd like to get a community-built multi-authored book started, where different experienced individuals from the community write a chapter each on various meaningful subjects and we edit them all and compile them all into one strong book. Everyone gets to pad their resume a bit, and we get a good book out of it. All profit goes back to the writers. Anyone up for being part of this endeavour?

- I am also interested in hiring a technical writer full time who has both the key programming skill (theoretically it doesn't need to be Lasso), and superb technical writing skills. If you know such a person, please have them contact me.

</snip>

Note that I have (since writing this blog post) been in contact with the following book franchises;

- Dummies (http://www.dummies.com)
- WROX (http://www.wrox.com)
- O'Reilly (http://www.oreilly.com/

And my big question (not asked in the Blog post) is: which one of these types of book would you like to see? Admittedly, all of them would be nice - but which one should we focus on first? Or do you have another recommendation?

Let me know!

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.
http://www.lassosoft.com

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30 jun 2012 kl. 00:56 skrev "Sean Stephens" <sean@lassosoft.com>:

> - Dummies (http://www.dummies.com)
> - WROX (http://www.wrox.com)
> - O'Reilly (http://www.oreilly.com/
>
> And my big question (not asked in the Blog post) is: which one of these types of book would you like to see? Admittedly, all of them would be nice - but which one should we focus on first? Or do you have another recommendation?
>
> Let me know!

For me there's at least two answers. One would be what I'd like to have (that would rule out Dummies). Another would be what's best for Lasso and growing the community (might include Dummies again).

For me having the book readable on screen is important. I've stopped printing out manuals years ago and do almost all work related reading at the computer or on the iPad. The main advantage here is the search ability. So whomever you choose as publisher, make sure it's possible to buy the book in an electronic version.

HDB
Jolle

Sent from a thin, flat, touchy device from an undetermined place in space.

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On 6/30/12 at 5:02 AM, Jolle.Carlestam@amtac.net (Jolle
Carlestam) pronounced:

>30 jun 2012 kl. 00:56 skrev "Sean Stephens" <sean@lassosoft.com>:
>
>>- Dummies (http://www.dummies.com)
>>- WROX (http://www.wrox.com)
>>- O'Reilly (http://www.oreilly.com/
>>
>>And my big question (not asked in the Blog post) is: which one of these types of
>book would you like to see? Admittedly, all of them would be
>nice - but which one should we focus on first? Or do you have
>another recommendation?
>>
>>Let me know!
>
>For me there's at least two answers. One would be what I'd like
>to have (that would rule out Dummies). Another would be what's
>best for Lasso and growing the community (might include Dummies again).

I think this well-intended idea is premature and diverts
attention from the obvious:

Lasso 9 itself lacks sufficient documentation from which anyone
can write a decent book on Lasso 9 programming.

There, I said it.

In general I think Dummies books for programming are a bad
idea. Let's say you're a newb, and you buy the book, tear
through it in an hour, and then what? You look for the next
book or resource that has some meat, like... the Language Guide!

Even after more than a decade, I still refer to the Language
Guide for Lasso 8 as my primary Lasso reference material. It
retains its value.

Unfortunately there is no PDF of the Language Guide for 9, and
what exists online at lassosoft.com is incomplete.

The second-most used reference material is the local online
Language Reference for 8, and the remote online reference for 9.

It peeves me that there is still no PDF of the Language Guide
for 9 and no local online Language Reference for 9. LassoSoft
holds all the resources on this one, and there is nothing we as
developers can do about it except complain until we're blue in
the face. Mine is purple. This was especially annoying over
the last month while lassosoft.com suffered stability issues and
I could not look up the definition of a method or type or try to
look up the syntax of a signature.

So, please, please, please, let me, let me, let me get what I
want this time. (Apologies to The Smiths.)

#1: Complete Language Guide for Lasso 9 in PDF
#2: Complete local Language Reference for Lasso 9
#3: Written tutorials and a "cookbook of recipes", e.g., the
Lasso TOTW by Fletcher and others, or the Pyramid Framework:
http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/
http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_cookbook/en/latest/
#4: Pony

>For me having the book readable on screen is important. I've
>stopped printing out manuals years ago and do almost all work
>related reading at the computer or on the iPad. The main
>advantage here is the search ability. So whomever you choose as
>publisher, make sure it's possible to buy the book in an
>electronic version.

+1 search and electronic version.

Many of the current and former newbies got started programming
in Lasso by copying and pasting code from the Language Guide.
Doing that from paper is hard.

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy Web Site Builder
Soquel, CA
<web@StevePiercy.com> <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>

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I'm not normally a plus one-er... but this time I am so motivated! A very loud and emphatic +1!

> #1: Complete Language Guide for Lasso 9 in PDF
> #2: Complete local Language Reference for Lasso 9
> #3: Written tutorials and a "cookbook of recipes", e.g., the Lasso TOTW by Fletcher and others

> Many of the current and former newbies got started programming in Lasso by copying and pasting code from the Language Guide.
>-- steve


Very best regards,

Rick


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On Jun 29, 2012, at 6:55 PM, Sean Stephens <sean@lassosoft.com> wrote:
> - Dummies (http://www.dummies.com)
> - WROX (http://www.wrox.com)
> - O'Reilly (http://www.oreilly.com/

Not sure how respected the Dummies series is for programmers. One publisher you may want to take a look at is The Pragmatic Programmers: http://pragprog.com/



On Jun 30, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder <Web@StevePiercy.com> wrote:

> #1: Complete Language Guide for Lasso 9 in PDF

I can't tell you how helpful the Lasso 8 Language Guide PDF has been to me. I still refer to it while programming Lasso 9. For example, if I need to remember how to use the regexp type. Recently I started there to learn how to use the [net_tcp] type in Lasso 9. Between that guide laying out the concepts of how to use the [net] tag in Lasso 8 and looking at the source code for the [net_tcp] type in Lasso 9, I was able to piece together how to use [net_tcp] in Lasso 9. However, if we had an updated Language Guide for 9, I would have been able to write my code in half the time.


Brad
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Steve has hit the nail on the heads - or the nails on the heads. The Language Guide is simply invaluable - it is a suberb document for using Lasso 8. It's quite unfathomable that there is no Language guide for 9. Ditto for the other points.

I can also appreaciate Seans angle, and the points he raises in the blog post. I just wish he could be a bit clear on the mulitple ways they are going to attack the documentation void. A roadmap for documentation, if you will.

To answer the questions he poses, I personally don't like the Dummies series. My impression is that that is something you have a book for to attract the laggards after the the technology has reached all the early tech savvy adopters. That's not what Lassosoft needs now.

If I look at my own book shelf, there seems to be a majority from the Wrox series. One book I for instance found very useful was "Professional JavaScript for Web Developers" by Nicholas C. Zakas. It has a nice balance of theoretical underpinnings and a lot of practical details. I pretty much learned Javascript from it.

Lars

On 30 Jun 2012, at 07:47, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote:

>
> I think this well-intended idea is premature and diverts attention from the obvious:
>
> Lasso 9 itself lacks sufficient documentation from which anyone can write a decent book on Lasso 9 programming.
>
> There, I said it.
>
> In general I think Dummies books for programming are a bad idea. Let's say you're a newb, and you buy the book, tear through it in an hour, and then what? You look for the next book or resource that has some meat, like... the Language Guide!
>
> Even after more than a decade, I still refer to the Language Guide for Lasso 8 as my primary Lasso reference material. It retains its value.
>
> Unfortunately there is no PDF of the Language Guide for 9, and what exists online at lassosoft.com is incomplete.
>
> The second-most used reference material is the local online Language Reference for 8, and the remote online reference for 9.
>
> It peeves me that there is still no PDF of the Language Guide for 9 and no local online Language Reference for 9. LassoSoft holds all the resources on this one, and there is nothing we as developers can do about it except complain until we're blue in the face. Mine is purple. This was especially annoying over the last month while lassosoft.com suffered stability issues and I could not look up the definition of a method or type or try to look up the syntax of a signature.
>
> So, please, please, please, let me, let me, let me get what I want this time. (Apologies to The Smiths.)
>
> #1: Complete Language Guide for Lasso 9 in PDF
> #2: Complete local Language Reference for Lasso 9
> #3: Written tutorials and a "cookbook of recipes", e.g., the Lasso TOTW by Fletcher and others, or the Pyramid Framework:
> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/
> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_cookbook/en/latest/
> #4: Pony
>
>> For me having the book readable on screen is important. I've stopped printing out manuals years ago and do almost all work related reading at the computer or on the iPad. The main advantage here is the search ability. So whomever you choose as publisher, make sure it's possible to buy the book in an electronic version.
>
> +1 search and electronic version.
>
> Many of the current and former newbies got started programming in Lasso by copying and pasting code from the Language Guide. Doing that from paper is hard.
>
> --steve
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Steve Piercy Web Site Builder Soquel, CA
> <web@StevePiercy.com> <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>
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30 jun 2012 kl. 07:47 skrev Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:

> It peeves me that there is still no PDF of the Language Guide for 9 and no local online Language Reference for 9. LassoSoft holds all the resources on this one, and there is nothing we as developers can do about it except complain until we're blue in the face. Mine is purple. This was especially annoying over the last month while lassosoft.comsuffered stability issues and I could not look up the definition of a method or type or try to look up the syntax of a signature.

Lassosoft helps strengthen the argument.
As of this morning:
http://www.lassosoft.com/LassoDocs/languageReference
-> 503 Service Unavailable
No server is available to handle this request.

HDB
Jolle
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Facepalm!!

- -
Marc


On 3 jul. 2012, at 07:29, Jolle Carlestam <Jolle.Carlestam@amtac.net> wrote:

> 30 jun 2012 kl. 07:47 skrev Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:
>
>> It peeves me that there is still no PDF of the Language Guide for 9 and no local online Language Reference for 9. LassoSoft holds all the resources on this one, and there is nothing we as developers can do about it except complain until we're blue in the face. Mine is purple. This was especially annoying over the last month while lassosoft.comsuffered stability issues and I could not look up the definition of a method or type or try to look up the syntax of a signature.
>
> Lassosoft helps strengthen the argument.
> As of this morning:
> http://www.lassosoft.com/LassoDocs/languageReference
> -> 503 Service Unavailable
> No server is available to handle this request.
>
> HDB
> Jolle
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In my view, prio ONE is offline/local documentation. Locally installed
(as L8), and/or pdf.

This doesn't take a documentation writer, it's "only" a technical issue.


THEN fill in the blanks with focus on a new/updated Language Guide.


2012/7/3 Marc Vos <marc.vos@me.com>:
> Facepalm!!
>
> - -
> Marc
>
>
> On 3 jul. 2012, at 07:29, Jolle Carlestam <Jolle.Carlestam@amtac.net> wrote:
>
>> 30 jun 2012 kl. 07:47 skrev Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:
>>
>>> It peeves me that there is still no PDF of the Language Guide for 9 and no local online Language Reference for 9. LassoSoft holds all the resources on this one, and there is nothing we as developers can do about it except complain until we're blue in the face. Mine is purple. This was especially annoying over the last month while lassosoft.comsuffered stability issues and I could not look up the definition of a method or type or try to look up the syntax of a signature.
>>
>> Lassosoft helps strengthen the argument.
>> As of this morning:
>> http://www.lassosoft.com/LassoDocs/languageReference
>> -> 503 Service Unavailable
>> No server is available to handle this request.
>>
>> HDB
>> Jolle
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